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Enter Subroutine - The NEXT possibilities

Android: Netrunner Enter Subroutine ashtaroth

Enter Subroutine - The NEXT possibilities

I’ve been talking about HB since I’ve started, but it’s a Corporation I love to play, so, I decided to maintain my focus on the Corporation. Today I’m going to analyze a very curious Identity:

So you want to build a HB NEXT Design?

A lot of players I play with are still trying to unlock the potential of this Identity. But the builds I’ve seen so far have been very clunky, sometimes amazing looking, not often though. Is this identity really good? Or is the effect rather gimmicky? I actually never took a second glance at this Identity, so let me do that now:

Posted Image


That’s very interesting. The ability is very appealing. You may get a whole turn ahead. But what are the exact numbers you should be running to have a consistent draw and don’t spoil too much your overall strategy? You can have a ton of ICE, but then you how do you make money?

“Ha, ha, ha! Ash! You play economy Operations and Assets”, sure, what are you taking out to have room for said Operations and Assets, that’s right, ICE. What becomes worse the less ICE you run? That’s right, your identity.

“Click for money profusely”. That’s not a winning strategy and, as bonus, if you come across a Gorman Drip, you’ll cry.

“Use ICE, which works as economy!” Sure, that sounds better. What ICE do we have that are economy?

Pop-up Window: it is a choice. But I think this ICE is weak, still I can get it’s pseudo-PAD Campaign value. Over time it’s a little better as it’ll drain the Runner more than 4 credits (the trash cost of PAD Campaign), but is more vulnerable to Parasite.

Shadow: Okay, it’s not half bad. But the problem is any Killer will just stomp it. And if you advance it to ensure the credit gain, you’re not accomplishing much.
Caduceus: No. You don’t sell me on this one. You have to spend money to ensure gaining money! This is not an economy ICE per se.

Archer: And you’re not going to viable be able to rez archer to gain the credits. Also, by the time you’re able to rez, realistically speaking you wouldn’t be needing the money anyway.

If you opt to run Pop-up, Shadow and Caduceus you’re out of influence, as 3 copies of these three is exactly 12. They’re not a really good splash, because they’re not impactful. Runner will shrug at Pop-up, raise an eyebrow for Shadow and facecheck Caduceus with a Sentry-breaker.

With that said, it is true that you may start a turn ahead. But what are the statistics of having three ICE in your hand?

Let’s take a look on the Interns report! I ran on a small budget, and they’re the only labor cheaper than clones, so….
YOU! Report!!

Intern A: Yes sir! I made a deck composition of 49 cards and 21 ICE.
Alright, what are the stats?
Intern: Certainly

Deck Size: 49
Number of ICE: 21
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 26%

So you have little chance to have 3 ICE. In fact 1 in four hands will have three ICE. Which is not fantastic. We need more ICE!
Surely almost everyone has reached this conclusion. Some adapted the deck to ensure a 2 ICE consistent hand. But not today, we’re trying to maximize on the ability, we’re going bonkers on it.
YOU! Report!!

Intern B: Y-yes! You asked me to take some risks so I built a 45 cards and 23 ICE deck.
The stats are what follow:

Deck Size: 45
Number of ICE: 23
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 33%

So, having half of your deck grants you a 33% chance of drawing the 3 ICE. This is an interesting build. As you cut 4 cards, but add 2 ICE. I think cutting to 45 might be worth a shot, especially if you’re the Fast Advance type. HB is already one of the specialists in Fast Advancing, borrowing some Economy ICE, and hard ETR ICE could be a very good build. There’s also a new card coming up: Fast Track

Fast track
Operation
Cost: 0
Influence: 0
Search R&D for an agenda, reveal it, and add it to HQ. Shuffle R&D.

This card is an “agenda” without being one. If you’re going for a Fast Advance build I can see this card working wonders. Here the first turn of three ICE working wonders. This makes me think, this Identity should’ve been a 40 card one. You could compress it to the maximum and then reap the reward but maybe that would be too powerful?
I build the list and took it for a spin. But it turns out the agenda suite is very bad. You want to take all 3/2 since you’re fast advancing, but that makes you have to run 10+ agendas which is not a great idea. I immediately went back to 49 but now I was again in the same problem.
But maybe, my build was not very good. My build was this:

Identity:
Next Design: Guarding the Net (Creation and Control)


Total Cards: (51)

Agenda: (11)
Accelerated Beta Test (Core) x3
Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus) x3
Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control) x1
Director Haas' Pet Project (Creation and Control) x1
Project Ares (Opening Moves) x3

Asset: (9)
Adonis Campaign (Core) x3
Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) x3 â– 
PAD Campaign (Core) x3

ICE: (23)
Bastion (Creation and Control) x3
Viktor 1.0 (Core) x3
Enigma (Core) x2
Quandary (Double Time) x2
Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) x3 â– 
Viper (Cyber Exodus) x1
Rototurret (Core) x3
Shadow (Core) x3 â– 
Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) x3

Operation: (8)
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Biotic Labor (Core) x3
Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves) x1 â– â– â– 
Blue Level Clearance (Fear and Loathing) x1

Upgrade: (0)

Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals -
Jinteki: 3
NBN: 6
The Weyland Consortium: 3


Back on the 49

I topped the number of ICE up to 26. Which brought the statistics to…
To…
INTERN!
Intern C: AHH! Yes?
Report!

Deck Size: 49
Number of ICE: 26
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 34%

I managed to increase 1%. The build only added 3 ICE and one more Blue Level Clearance (which I may swap for Fast Track, now). However I was starting to lose my faith in this identity. And after a couple more games I indeed lost it. It is very inconsistent. If you’re happy having only two ICE and the occasional 3 ICE it is fine, at best. If you play with small ICE, then, you won’t have strong servers. If you want to have bigger ICE, then you won’t be rezzing them any soon. I did try a big ICE build but it wasn’t nearly as consistent as this one: it basically relied heavily on having Oversight AI, Bioroid Efficiency Test and lucky draws from Accelerated Beta Test on the couple first turns. If I failed to draw or mulligan into any one of those cards the decks was almost the same as Iceless… ironical! Overall, I’m always broke with this ID. I spent a lot of games with ICE’d servers but no money to rez them, no way to make money, or just not enough money. It can be that my builds are not very well tuned. But I think the card pool now available is still not enough for this ID. You’d need more ICE like Howler perhaps, and definitely more ICE like Pop-up Window and Shadow!

Now I’m back at the lab. In the end, I like this Identity, it’s pretty fun. But that’s it. I don’t think this identity has what it takes to be competitive. Yet! Sure, you can maybe spot a person who wins a tournament with this ID, but I think most of the time the person will be a very skillful player, or the Runner deck will carry said player to the top. If some more economy ICE comes around (and I’m sure they will), as more cards that reward you to play a lot of ICE (one has already come out in the new expansion: Diversified Portfolio, you can install the extra ICE in HQ in new servers, thus get a good net from Diversified Portfolio). In a casual environment though, I maybe give a couple of spins on this:

Identity:
Next Design: Guarding the Net (Creation and Control)


Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (13)
Accelerated Beta Test (Core) x3
Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus) x3
Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control) x3
Profiteering (Second Thoughts) x3
Corporate War (Future Proof) x1

Asset: (3)
Melange Mining Corp (Core) x3

ICE: (29)
Bastion (Creation and Control) x3
Viktor 1.0 (Core) x3
Enigma (Core) x2
Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) x3 â– 
Rototurret (Core) x3
Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) x3
Wall of Static (Core) x3
Heimdall 1.0 (Core) x1
Ichi 1.0 (Core) x1
Ichi 2.0 (Creation and Control) x1
Guard (Honor and Profit) x1
Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control) x2
Viper (Cyber Exodus) x1
Chimera (Cyber Exodus) x2

Operation: (4)
Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves) x2 â– â– â– 
Witness Tampering (Double Time) x2 â– 

Upgrade: (0)

Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals -
Jinteki: 6
NBN: 3
The Weyland Consortium: 2


Deck Size: 49
Number of ICE: 29
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3):36%

Now, let me be honest with you. This deck is dysfunctional, but a lot of fun. The idea is to score an agenda fast! And then have it be your economy. The Witness Tampering gives you leeway to go all in with the Profiteering, Celebrity Gift, because the Runner loves to see your HQ full of ICE.

If you’re not really aiming to win, but rather have a fun game you can give it a go. The amount of interaction and the casual ambience may prove useful for you to discover new and fun interactions and maybe (Can it be???) a good variance of this archetype.

If you have one already please let me know in the comments below. I’d love to discuss it!

Until next time
Ashtaroth
  • scantrell24 and kurthl33t like this


25 Comments

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bayushidavid
May 12 2014 08:00 AM
I love NEXT. I've been playing it ever since I started. And I reckon whilst not top-level competitive my deck runs at around 70% win. All the ICE is cheap and either ends the run or trashes programmes. With an even mix of the three types and variable costs, the corp needs to find all three breakers super fast to get in. Meanwhile I'm rushing out Accelerated Beta, Gila Hands or Efficiency Committee starting turn 1. On a good start it will push out a further 3/2 or Gila Hands and then go to Fast Advancing the last four points with Efficency Committee/Shipment from Sansan or Biotic Labour.

You need to assume that you get two ICE in your opening hand. Going for three is nuts but when it happens it's ace. Two ICE is still more than a full turn's head start (install, install, draw, draw) and lets you ICE up a remote first click, install an agenda and play an economy card first turn.
    • kurthl33t and ashtaroth like this
Agree with David above, 2 in the opening hand is good, 1 or less mulligan, 3 is winsauce.

I use the 23 ice in 49 cards split.

Director Haas herself is a natural fit in this ID, and I think the real reason to choose NEXT design, because you can get her on the table, defended well, within the first turn or two. Then you score from hand and just keep piling on the layers of defence. Her Pet Project also rocks with so much ice around.

With a Gila Hands in your score area, or a Melange behind ice, you will do absolutely fine money wise, especially considering they both play so so so nice with the Director herself.

I have found traditional fast advance methods struggle in this deck, you are (regardless of statements above) still a little money hampered, so Sansan and similar ideas are hard to pay for.
    • kurthl33t likes this
I've been trying to make NEXT design work for some time now as well and I have to agree with your conclusion. While It's not there yet to play with the big boys, but its been a very fun thing to play nonetheless.

I like it how the deck establishes early game pressure, as you can routinely score your first 2/3 or 2/4 as early as turn two. I think my most successful design so far was built around riding that early game advantage for as long as possible, but I can't help but notice that the deck's overall feel can be very random. A lot of the time, bad luck on the draw (or random access, or mulligan) will decide on who'll be the winner.

Still, I find the deck is a good test for a new runner deck, it basically asks the question - are you fast enough to run with the big boys?

Building NEXT feels like one big balancing act. You have to carefully balance the number of ice (to make the best use of the ID and the Beta Tests which I would argue is the backbone agenda in this deck) with the number of agendas, so that you still have reasonable space for moneymaking, and finally, how to balance out the meager influence pool. Money is the biggest issue here, in my opinion, as there is nothing worse than being caught with no money to advance when you've found the scoring window.

This is part of the reason why after lots of testing I decided to lose the Mining Corp - it was much too slow.
Your ice statistics were an interesting read. I too have discarded the 45 card version after some deliberation. I prefer to keep the agenda density as low as possible here. Though 29 Ice at 49 cards feels a bit excessive for me (the improvement from having 29 over 26 is 2%, while the lost deck space can be crippling) and I prefer to keep that count closer to 26 to still have a nice turn 0 and good ABT odds.

While I've yet to give your version a serious go, I think you may have a really tough time when your celebrity gifts don't arrive on time (they would be much more reliable as 3x in a 45 card setup). I also think that witness tampering is a wasted slot, as the card in itself contributes nothing to the tempo (eating up both the valuable 4 creds and 2 influence which would be better spent for Medical Fundraisers... though that may depend on how you use your profiteerings).

Agenda-wise, I prefer to keep the count more compact to reduce the risk of agenda flooding (an important thing as we can't jackson for help) and random R&D accesses - with each agenda pushing me forward a little bit. While your agenda pool does exactly that, I think the Gila Hands is way too slow here (especially coupled with melanges) - I would drop them for a priority requisition and use the added slots to get the good old hedge funds back (or green levels).
So, here's the example of how I am doing things:

Total Cards: (49)
Agenda (9)
Priority Requisition (Core #106) x2
Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus #51) x3
Accelerated Beta Test (Core #55) x3
Project Wotan (Creation and Control #6) x1
This seems to be the sweet spot for me. You can go down to 8 agendas, but such a setup sometimes gives you too many 3/5s in hand to reasonably handle, other times you miss a sweet opportunity to score on turn 2.

Asset (0)

ICE (26)
Howler (Creation and Control #16) x2
Eli 1.0 (Future Proof #110) x3
Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control #19) x2
Viper (Cyber Exodus #52) x3
Wotan (Second Thoughts #30) x2
Quandary (Double Time #120) x3
Paper Wall (Mala Tempora #59) x3
Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead #12) x3
Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control #15) x2
Ichi 1.0 (Core #62) x2
Rototurret x1

Operation (12)
Oversight AI (A Study in Static #79) x3 (o)(o)
Bioroid Efficiency Research (Creation and Control #13) x1
Hedge Fund (Core #110) x3
Sweeps Week (True Colors #76) x2 (o)(o)
Medical Research Fundraiser x2 (o)
Biotic Labor (Core #59) x1

Upgrade (2)
Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead #13) x2
I came up with this build after a rather unfruitful stint with a heavy Rook Reina. As it turns out, a force-rezzed bioroid (Woden, Hemidall and Janus are the prime targets here) gives some piece of mind early on.
Ash really works great here, effectively turning all our agendas into NAPDs, it's an art in itself, deciding where to drop him. Sometimes he's best in the main scoring server, other times, he makes for a nice last line of defense in the R&D. You can also use him to bluff at match point.

The single biotic labor is here to provide a late-game fast advance option to get the last two points. It's also quite good early on, to force a beta test out, when you have that gut feeling that it's the right thing to do. It can be safely swapped out for a secretary or an additional ASH.

The biggest boon I've found for this deck is operation-based economy, it effectively gives us 7 Hedge Funds to work with (which gives nice odds of seeing at least one in turn 1), which allows to keep your pace up for quite a bit, especially if you get two in the opening hand. While I can see that your opinion on such an approach is just the opposite, I think NEXT really needs to play super agressive or it ends up being a poor version of its bigger borther.

The previous version operated on 3x Hedges and 3x Sweeps Weeks, I'm currently toying with the idea of going with just 3x Hedges and 3x Fundraisers to free up some influence. Oversight AIs are another good candidate for freeing some dots, as they can be swapped out for the bioroid efficiency research. I still like to keep the AIs around (at least two) because of the tempo boost they provide.

There's quite a bit of a learning curve involved when working with NEXT, in my opinion, as botched ice placement, rez choices as well as deciding when to ABT or no can really hurt you.

EDIT: Some more random thoughts:

(one has already come out in the new expansion: Diversified Portfolio, you can install the extra ICE in HQ in new servers, thus get a good net from Diversified Portfolio).

Unfortunately, the portfolio reads: each remote with a card IN it (as opposed to protecting that server, cf. Haas Pet project), so this is a no-go for next.

I think it would be great if you gave the actual % for a 2 and 1 ice hands, just for reference, since we're playing at maths here. I have to agree with the guys above, while 3 ice start is teh awsomz, 2 ice is fine too.

I'm still hoping to see some more NEXT ice. I was tempted to try Bronze, but the prospect of all the effort being nullified by a single yog is pretty daunting.

Grail ice also looks like it has lots of potential, since next likes to keep a lot of ice on hand. We'll have to wait and see if we get more than just Lancelot and Excalibur.

I also have high hopes for Eliza's Toybox, could let me reasonably run some archers here.
    • Jhaelen, kurthl33t and ashtaroth like this
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bayushidavid
May 12 2014 02:11 PM

I have found traditional fast advance methods struggle in this deck, you are (regardless of statements above) still a little money hampered, so Sansan and similar ideas are hard to pay for.


Sansan City Grid is impossible to pay for, but I don't think you need it.

Mine's economy is Succesful Demonstration, Blue Level Clearance, Hedge Fund, Shipment from Sansan (effectively 2 credits without costing a click) and Gila Hands. It's just enough, if you need are prepared to take risks and not worry excessively about giving up agendas to random accesses or ABT.
    • kurthl33t likes this
NEXT is definitely being underestimated in this article. You're not getting a turn ahead with 3 ice, you're getting TWO turns ahead. That's THREE free installs, THREE free draws, and the ability to play strong opening plays and agendas that can lead to even stronger servers right off the bat. You're also not even losing anything because those clicks are going towards actions you would have taken ANYWAY!

Compare it to HB's 1 credit per install identity. That would take SIX turns to get a six click advantage, great for a long term strategy but not necessarily good for early rush. Even at 2 ice in opening hand for NEXT, a four click advantage at the start of the game is invaluable. After your first turn, you are now 7 clicks ahead of the runner. This opens up all kinds of first turn plays that would otherwise be impossible. Heck, you can legitimately rez a Heimdall on your first run, which is definitely going to be an account siphon if you're up against Andromeda. If you get lucky enough to get both economy cards in your opening hand, you can begin the game with enough credits to rez JANUS!

The longer the game lasts, the less valuable this early game lead becomes so you want to win quickly with NEXT. Planting a turn 1 Sentinel Defense Program can setup a workable Brain Damage threat, while Fast Track can pull any agenda you may want to install on that 1st play.

This identity has huge potential just with 2 ice in hand. The 3 ice is a free win and the 1 ice is there to offset that. Not like you don't get a mulligan though!
    • MrLordcaptain likes this
There's a problem with your statistics here. You're not looking for an opening hand with 3 ICE, you're looking for a hand with at LEAST 3 ice.
    • everydayhero likes this
Well, we all agree on something: Accelerated Beta Test is bonkers in this build.

On the 51 card build it should be 3 Project Wotan, not Ares, otherwise I wouldn't had enough agenda points. I meant one, but wrote another. My bad!

@bayushidavid: there's no way I can be happy with 2 ICE in hand and the occasional 3 ICE. I think like this: I don't play Andromeda to draw 7 cards, or 8 cards. I play Andromeda to draw 9 cards! I don't play Custom Biotics to just have 15 or 17 points worth of influence, I play it to have the 22 all used up! There's no need to not be ambitious! I want this ID to work and I want it to be bonkers! Not just part-time bonkers. Full time CEO bonkers! That's why I wrote this article over a testing period with this ID. But I did mention that if your aim is to have at least 2 ICE this is still fine. But only that... leaves your mouth dry wanting for just one more sip, doesn't it?

Director Haas herself is a natural fit in this ID, and I think the real reason to choose NEXT design, because you can get her on the table, defended well, within the first turn or two.

@badeesh: I absolutely agree that Director Haas' Pet Project is a nice fit in this type of strategy.

@spectre: I'm 100% with you. Bear in mind that I also wrote this article unbeknownst of the full Honor and Profit spoiler. I think Medical Research Fundraiser is a natural fit in this deck. The 3 credits to the Runner are pretty useless as your ICE will eat them up. The Witness Tampering + Profiteering are somewhat of an experiment. Don't get me wrong, my final list doesn't aim to win any games. It's just a learning experience. With that said, the plan is to go all out with the Profiteering, get the 15 credits and then remove the bad pub. But I'm willing to drop that.
The Lancelot promises very much, let's see if it delivers. Another reason I decided to write about NEXT is that I believe we are getting closer to see a real competitive build. Right now, the balance on NEXT Design builds is so tenuous it easy to get off the trail. And I dream that one day I can play a build that consist of only ICE and Agendas and wins!

You're not getting a turn ahead with 3 ice, you're getting TWO turns ahead. That's THREE free installs, THREE free draws, and the ability to play strong opening plays and agendas that can lead to even stronger servers right off the bat.

@Kyutaru: I understand the potency of such an ability. You're actually quite right saying it's 2 turns worth of clicking on a three ICE hand. With that said, you don't get that hand very often. If you compare it with the core set HB altough slower, you will always (100%) get the credits. And then there's the balance talk Spectre described so well: the ICE you get, you have to be able to rez them. If they're cheap ICE, the Runner will fetch the proper breakers and start pounding on the servers, If your ICE is expensive, even if you're able to rez one at the start of the game, the Runner will not have anything to lose and proceed with the game. Then, trying to rush a win with this ID while ensuring secure servers is daunting. And right now, more than we'd like to admit, inconsistent.

@Cadavaca: I only aim for the best and the perfect. "At least" doesn't content me. There's no problem with my statistics, they were aimed to get 3, not "at least 3". The percentages are much higher in an "at least" perspective.

I think it would be great if you gave the actual % for a 2 and 1 ice hands, just for reference, since we're playing at maths here. I have to agree with the guys above, while 3 ice start is teh awsomz, 2 ice is fine too.


No problem... I'll just call the Interns:

Intern A:
Deck Size: 49
Number of ICE: 21
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 26%
Probability of ICE (=2): 36%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 36%
Probability of at least 2 ICE: 72%

Intern B:
Deck Size: 45
Number of ICE: 23
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 33%
Probability of ICE (=2): 31%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 52%
Probability of at least 2 ICE: 84%

The 51 card build:
Deck size: 51
Number of ICE: 23
Hand: 5
Probability of ICE (=3): 28%
Probability of ICE (=2): 35%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 40%
Probability of at least 2 ICE: 76%

Intern C:
Deck Size: 49
Number of ICE: 26
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 34%
Probability of ICE (=2): 30%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 56%
Probability of at least 2 ICE: 86%

The last list:
Deck Size: 49
Number of ICE: 29
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3):36%
Probability of ICE (=2): 24%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 68%
Probability of at least 2 ICE: 92%
    • Jhaelen likes this
Have you experimented with Edge of World at all? I've found it to be extremely powerful in NEXT. You run a lot of cheap ICE, so it's hard to keep the Runner out of your remote once they have their rig up. So what do you do? Drop an Edge of World into the remote. Let them run it. Laugh when they take 4 brain damage.

I HAVE managed to kill people with EoW before, but mostly it's there to scare off the Runner. Once they've seen it, they have to be afraid of every unrezzed card in my remote. This allows me to drop my 3-cost agendas into the remote without a care in the (edge of) world. Triple Jacksons (plus various levels of clearance) allow me to dig for and recycle triple EoW, so I can almost always keep the Runner on his or her toes.

I also strongly recommend 2x Gila Hands. (3x is too much--scoring a second or third do nothing for you.) It's great econ that you can almost always score early, and it'll keep you in the game no matter how many Account Syphons and Vamps the Runner wants to send your way. You'll rarely get super rich with NEXT, barring some Melange shenanigans, but Gila Hands is a great way to make sure you always have enough money for your needs.
    • ashtaroth likes this
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bayushidavid
May 13 2014 09:48 AM
@Ashtaroth That's fine; our decks are designed to do very different things. Mine is designed to take the one turn advatange and make it enough to win with. Yours is designed to maximise the chance of getting two free turns and win off that.

If you are going down the super-heavy ICE route then you should try Minelayer. In theory install on a central at the begining of the game and it will let you ICE that central up without spending the clicks and money on instalation. Whether it works that way in practice is another matter of course.
Been thinking about this since reading yesterday, and I think Haas Arcology AI is another option (if you are hating on Director Haas herself) to have on the table, defended, within a turn or two, to provide you a cheap method of scoring from hand by turn 2 or 3.

It isn't nearly as efficient and beneficial in the long run as Miss Haas, but you won't have a runner hell bent on trashing your key asset and scoring points when he does.

It also slightly erodes the efficiency of Gila Hands and Melange, but should play a bit safer.

Worth a test.

Intern B:
Deck Size: 45
Number of ICE: 23
Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3
Probability of ICE (=3): 33%
Probability of ICE (=2): 31%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 52%
Probability of at least 2 ICE: 84%


I think I like this spread the best. 45 is in line with the rush nature that I believe a NEXT deck has to take to be viable, and getting at least 2 ICE 84% of the time without going overboard on ICE seems optimal to me. I still don't know if it's top-tier, but it looks better than I thought it would.
    • ashtaroth likes this

Been thinking about this since reading yesterday, and I think Haas Arcology AI is another option (if you are hating on Director Haas herself) to have on the table, defended, within a turn or two, to provide you a cheap method of scoring from hand by turn 2 or 3.


Indeed it's worth a test. I think it might be best in NEXT design, specially if your ICE are smaller, but a 2/1 split may be good as well.

What all of you think about Mushin no Shin in this ID? I think it's fantastic. You play your agenda and keep all your money to rez your ICE. You can build a 3-4 or even 5 ICE server, then Fast Track into Mushin no Shin and grin daring the Runner. You can even put that Edge of World, as it's not an advanceable asset and really screw the Runner's brain (pun intended).

I think I like this spread the best. 45 is in line with the rush nature that I believe a NEXT deck has to take to be viable, and getting at least 2 ICE 84% of the time without going overboard on ICE seems optimal to me. I still don't know if it's top-tier, but it looks better than I thought it would.


It sounds really juicy indeed. Before testing I already had that feeling, that this deck wanted less cards. I really think we'll see a fresh, potent, new build on this ID sooner than later.
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CommissarFeesh
May 13 2014 05:04 PM

What all of you think about Mushin no Shin in this ID? I think it's fantastic. You play your agenda and keep all your money to rez your ICE. You can build a 3-4 or even 5 ICE server, then Fast Track into Mushin no Shin and grin daring the Runner. You can even put that Edge of World, as it's not an advanceable asset and really screw the Runner's brain (pun intended).


Mushin has to create a new server. Sorry! Could be fun if you're running Mirrormorph though.
    • ashtaroth likes this

Mushin has to create a new server. Sorry! Could be fun if you're running Mirrormorph though.


Indeed it does! Sorry about that. But maybe, just maybe it'd be good with Shipment from Mirrormorph.
The possibility exists, need to test to see if it is any good. But I actually don't think it's that bad.
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JamesHarrison
May 13 2014 06:14 PM
The next thing to consider is the Mulligan! When you take into account the Mulligan we comp up with greatly increased reliability - Mulligan probability is the probability we get 3+ ice in our starting hand, assuming we Mulligan on a less than three ICE hand.

No problem... I'll just call the Interns:


Intern A:

Deck Size: 49, Number of ICE: 21, Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3, Probability of ICE (=3): 26%, Probability of ICE (=2): 36%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 36%, Probability of at least 2 ICE: 72%

Probability of at least three ICE (including Mulligan): 59%

Intern B:

Deck Size: 45, Number of ICE: 23, Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3, Probability of ICE (=3): 33%, Probability of ICE (=2): 31%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 52%, Probability of at least 2 ICE: 84%

Probability of at least three ICE (including Mulligan): 77%

The 51 card build:

Deck size: 51, Number of ICE: 23, Hand: 5
Probability of ICE (=3): 28%, Probability of ICE (=2): 35%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 40%, Probability of at least 2 ICE: 76%

Probability of at least three ICE (including Mulligan): 64%

Intern C:

Deck Size: 49, Number of ICE: 26, Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3, Probability of ICE (=3): 34%, Probability of ICE (=2): 30%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 56%, Probability of at least 2 ICE: 86%

Probability of at least three ICE (including Mulligan): 81%

The last list:

Deck Size: 49, Number of ICE: 29, Hand size: 5
Ideal number of ICE in hand (x): 3, Probability of ICE (=3):36%, Probability of ICE (=2): 24%
Probability of at least 3 ICE: 68%, Probability of at least 2 ICE: 92%

Probability of at least three ICE (including Mulligan): 90%


So the six 'turn' advantage is achievable - you can get it four out of five games with in-turn C's deck, and 9 out of 10 Games with the last list... there is still potential!
    • ashtaroth likes this

So the six 'turn' advantage is achievable - you can get it four out of five games with in-turn C's deck, and 9 out of 10 Games with the last list... there is still potential!


Mr. Harrison after debating in the Efficiency Comittee and with the impending Restructure, we decided to promote you from Sysop to Executive!
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JamesHarrison
May 13 2014 07:13 PM
(Oops I mean six click advantage! Lol... Managing that I would be an executive)

Yes, the deck's possibly to be viable in various forms is good; and as more 'useful' ICE occurs (allowing income etc.), it has a strong early game advantage...

I think I would go for 24 ICE in a 45 card deck - you have something like 85% reliability and your remaining deck is 21 ICE, 21 stuff: and with the powerful cards mentioned above we should have something strong on our hands.

Oh and Ashtaroth; thanks for looking at the maths - it inspired me to brush up on my statistics again!... of course one thing that is very very bad for this deck is the <2% possibility of not playing any ICE after a mulligan - you hand is then target number one!
    • Jhaelen and ashtaroth like this
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everydayhero
May 16 2014 05:54 AM
Kudos to the math-nerds who 1) did the math for us, and 2) managed to cover the bases (especially James for saved me from pointing out the mulligan)!

NEXT Design is powerful--there is no doubt--whether you're gunning for 3 ICE or satisfied with 2. Also, the variety of combos and strategies that work well with NEXT Design make this identity the obvious pick for HB fans (as well as anyone needing a corp deck that can win often, if not always).

Of course, Honor and Profit just threw a Jinteki-sized wrench into the works, but can this work for HB? Fast Track & Medical Research Fundraiser were mentioned (although I'm not thrilled with MRF). Mushin was withdrawn from discussion, but I think he works well with Plan B; unfortunately that's just throwing more cards into a deck that already has too many. But what about NeoTokyo Grid? Only 2 influence, a cost-2 upgrade for the advancing server, and 5 to trash: this is nice addition to any Fast Track-ing deck.

Of course, Honor and Profit just threw a Jinteki-sized wrench into the works, but can this work for HB? Fast Track & Medical Research Fundraiser were mentioned (although I'm not thrilled with MRF). Mushin was withdrawn from discussion, but I think he works well with Plan B; unfortunately that's just throwing more cards into a deck that already has too many. But what about NeoTokyo Grid? Only 2 influence, a cost-2 upgrade for the advancing server, and 5 to trash: this is nice addition to any Fast Track-ing deck.


Well, just for the sake of the argument, I'll reaffirm that, although Mushin no Shin creates a new server it's still a good card (it's five clicks worth in a single card). And you're left with one click, with so much ICE in your deck you can protect the server just as well. If playing against Criminal and you successfully defend your Mushin'd agenda from a Inside Job with a Guard, you immediately gain a pro point and a cookie, as well as the lifelong right to mock that Runner. If playing with Fenris, Cerebral Overwriter and other sources of B-damage, I can see Mushin no Shin gainning value.

As for Medical Fundraiser, I've to admit, it's not a card for everyone. But it's very, very powerful economy burst. Just be sure that, when you're giving the Runner three credits your R&D is well protected and you have nothing for them in HQ. If they install something sooner on the account of those three credits, that you can preemptively prepare for it, rearranging servers, know what to rez, etc. It isn't as brainless as Hedge Fund or Restructure, but it's very good nonetheless.

The major problem I have, with this Identity is its inconsistency, not only on initial hands, but throughout the game as well. But it's getting there. For sure! And when we get a couple more tools to make NEXT draw more fluid and consistent whether on bad starts (2 ICE) or good ones (3 ICE), I'll be an happy Bioroid. :D
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bayushidavid
May 18 2014 09:38 PM
I made second in a (small, and my first) Store Championship today, running my NEXT Design rush/FA deck. I'll admit it was the weaker of my runner/corp pair, but it didn't disgrace itself and corps were suffering in general. 21 ICE - I never saw less than 2 and I saw 3 around half the time (This is after mulligans). The main problem was variance, with agenda gluts in one game being followed by long fallow periods in others. I left with the conclusion that Fast Track is something that I need to try and squeeze in...somehow.
    • ashtaroth likes this

@bayushidavid

I wasn't able to quote you, don't know why.

 

21 ICE in a 49 card build?

I normally don't consider cards that aren't still out there, because the meta can shape in such a way before you actually get your hands in the card, but Fast Track was one that kept poking my head while I playtested NEXT Design.

It's an agenda that's not an agenda. Your deck is already not very porous, I'll assume, and Fast Track just grants you another stop sign, while fetching you an agenda on demand. It's really good, either in Fast Advance or a more Fortress type of build.

 

But like you mentioned, the variance of this deck is a real problem. And it's something the card pool right can not smooth out. Yet! But we're getting closer!

Best piece of news so far is that another bit of NEXT ice will be there for us in the next data pack. This opens up possibilities to make unyoggable Bronzes eventually. I suspect the grail ice to be big as well. Excalibur might be worth it on its own, as it synergizes nicely with ASH 1337, and with just Lancelot should get pretty awesome for taxing. The upcoming source agendas could also be interesting.

 

@up

Fast tracks could be a good idea for the builds that use 8 agendas (3/3/3/3/2/2/2/2). In testing, I found out that I like the reduced density of this setup, but it often deprives me of the opportunity to threaten a score on turn. 2 FT fixes this nicely and breaks R&D interface locks (I found that your typical Andromeda was nightmare for NEXT -  R&D interfaces, inside jobs, emergency shutdowns, oh my). This allows to pay a bit less attention to R&D defense.

@spectre

Are you actually considering two pieces of NEXT enough to warrant them in the deck? I mean, you want to max out on the abilities so you'll have 6 NEXT. I feel 9 would be the bare minimum. What're your thoughts?
I'm actually much more excited with the Grail ICE, but until then, we'll see how the meta will shape up.

Fast Tracks together with a semi-agenda toolbox might be a powerful build. Fetching up one of those 5/3. Actually, I'm kinda of in favor of reducing your agendas to the minimum possible since you can go around this with Fast Track.

 

Either way, with so much taxing ICE coming out, in the near future running a NEXT Design's server might be such an unbearable amount of credits you'll just laugh it out loud as you score the sweet seventh.

I'm kind of amazed nobody mentioned Security Subcontract here. It gives a lot of flexibility (choosing when to activate, and which ice to remove), and it's very effective at several duties for decks which have Quandaries, Paper Walls, as well as any configuration of Rototurrets, Popup Windows, and Enigmas and Viktors 1.0.

I find spending two influence on two copies of it a very good investment in many of my fast/rushing decks.

 

Also, as bayushidavid already mentioned, Minelayer...