338 replies to this topic

[Epicurus]

Can I just have a [ "No-Bayushi-allowed"  1 Fate - Put all Bayushi cards in play provinces or decks into the discard pile.  ]-Card in my Phoenix decks please. :'( 

 

6/5, autoinclude

[DrewDioxin]

Curious about Silme's Phoenix Missile build. Anyone have translated deck theory/card decision choices/etc.?

 

Since I think aggro strategy right now is key, I feel the concept in how I understand it might work to catch others off guiard, especially considering everyone thinks a Phoneix build is gonna play with the rings the whole time and grind out through a ham stringing play style. 

 

Any tips for a new player who has 2 cores right now with access to a 3rd?

[Killcrazy]

Curious about Silme's Phoenix Missile build. Anyone have translated deck theory/card decision choices/etc.?

 

Since I think aggro strategy right now is key, I feel the concept in how I understand it might work to catch others off guiard, especially considering everyone thinks a Phoneix build is gonna play with the rings the whole time and grind out through a ham stringing play style. 

 

Any tips for a new player who has 2 cores right now with access to a 3rd?

 

Hey Drew, some inputs from what I understand of the deck type is to focus on Shugenjas and neutrals to lighten up your cost curve. Skip Tsukune, Display of Power and Know the World. 

 

Pacifism and Cloud the Mind to control Military conflicts and difficult chars. I'd opt for Crane or Dragon for support cards - Admit Defeat and Covert guy from Dragon. Another option to consider is Unicorn for Captive Audience. 

[DrewDioxin]

Hey Drew, some inputs from what I understand of the deck type is to focus on Shugenjas and neutrals to lighten up your cost curve. Skip Tsukune, Display of Power and Know the World. 

 

Pacifism and Cloud the Mind to control Military conflicts and difficult chars. I'd opt for Crane or Dragon for support cards - Admit Defeat and Covert guy from Dragon. Another option to consider is Unicorn for Captive Audience. 

So you try to Poli smash provinces really quickly? 

 

Seems pretty cool. Gonna try to throw a rough version of it together after me and my play group get a couple of games under our belt. I am really excited to start working with triple core and fleshing out my familiarity with the game. I loved the old game but some of the mechanics were really convoluted. 

 

I hope they introduce an alt win con for Clan Firebird through ring control like in the old game though. 

[Killcrazy]

You can still smash via Military as Pacifism lets you take out their big military guns and opening a way in. It's also more unexpected.

 

The biggest danger is against decks that dishonour your dudes due to their high glory scores. Be careful around Scorpion and Crane in regards to that as Cancels, Bows and Dishonours can slow your missile blitz where they can gain the tempo.

[OutOfFactionWarlord]

You can still smash via Military as Pacifism lets you take out their big military guns and opening a way in. It's also more unexpected.

 

The biggest danger is against decks that dishonour your dudes due to their high glory scores. Be careful around Scorpion and Crane in regards to that as Cancels, Bows and Dishonours can slow your missile blitz where they can gain the tempo.

 

I'm intrigued, I've been experimenting with Lion as a splash in this type of deck as well.  I'm missing out on Let Go, so it's probably sub-optimal but I like Guidance of the Ancestors a lot for some reason.  I just can't follow the "pack" and pick the obvious sub factions.

[Eu8L1ch]

What about some brainstorming, fellow Phoenix players?

If someone asked you which are the reasons why you play Phoenix - its strong suits, the cards you like the most - what would you say?

 

For me, there are a few.

Isawa Atsuko and Display of Power are the ones that stand out the most, with the latter suffering from the abundance of Scorpion and Crane in the meta unfortunately.

[OutOfFactionWarlord]

I'm drawn to Phoenix by the archetype but unfortunately not any specific cards at the moment lol.

 

In most games I try to play factions that have interesting game state control mechanics, interacting with things in unique ways that are really close to rule bending.  The Phoenix clan seems to be heavily focused on these types of things:  Soft control, ring manipulation / control, "magic theme".  From a theming / fun to play perspective, I think this clan is a homerun.

 

From a competitive perspective, game state control is one of the wildcard archetypes.  Other clans rely on a specific type of strength and then try to exploit it, this can often lead to matchup based handicaps (you see this a lot in other games, only time will tell if we start seeing that here).  Ultimately this can limit your options, especially in a small local meta, and could lead to swinging tournament and match results.  But Phoenix playing as a wild card state manipulator, theoretically they can manipulate the state of the game to make any of their matchups uncomfortable for opponents.  Instead of having good / bad matchups, instead you have a puzzle to solve.  How do I alter my opponent's plan just enough to throw their deck off of it's optimizations.

 

I see this as the "thinking" clan.  Impactful decisions, the main reason I'm interested in card games to begin with.

[GKZhukov]

Fnally tried Phoenix, and really like the ring manipulation effects (though struggling with what to leave out in the conflict deck). Dynasty characters feel a bit weak though.

I'd agree with the adaptability described in the post above. Long game is strong, but tournament time constraints are an issue since you will quite possibly fall behind on tiebreakers before getting into a winning position.

[Killcrazy]

With the seeker and keeper cards revealed, we probably want to go Keeper with Crane splash. Isawa Kaede looks to be better than Tsukune. Might go 3 Kaede, 1 Tsukune and splash Crane for Disdainful Remark, Steward of Law and Admit Defeat. Combined with Harmonize, thats a very strong defensive setup.

[Fumo]

Harmonise definitely looks strong, and more useful than Consumed By Five Fires.

[sparrowhawk]

Kaede is a Shugenja for Yojimbo and Storm and synergises beautifully with Seeker of Knowledge and Atsuko.

Tsukune and Meddling Mediator synergise but have anti-synergy with Ishiken Initiate.

The Core Pool is a mix of the Shugenja build led by Kaede and a high Glory Bushi/Courtier build that should play 3x Steward of Law.

Harmonize ensures Phoenix Keepers will play high end for some time. It also bolsters cards like poor Masahiro.

But more worryingly it's better for other Clans - especially Unicorn who can easily move in bowed beat sticks, Rout then Harmonize.

So many good Keeper cards...

[checkmate23]

My current deck is below (40/40). I personally think Crane offers me the best benefits. I love running Above Question, Steward of Law, and Voice of Honor. Im surprised many never mentioned the benefits of Above Question which protects me from being dishonored by court games or for shame and allows me to safely invest for any 2 or lower costs people like Asako Diplomat without fear of Assassination. Im currently undefeated (have played lion, scorpion, dragon, and crab so far). If you have some suggestions I appreciate it. I seen several recommend way of the phoenix, but I can honestly say I have rarely been in a situation where I could say it would have made a big difference if I had way of the phoenix in my hand...

 

Stronghold: 

1x Isawa Mori Seidō (Core Set)

Role: 
1x Seeker of Void (Core Set)

Province: 
1x Elemental Fury (Core Set)
1x Entrenched Position (Core Set)
1x Fertile Fields (Core Set)
1x Kuroi Mori (Core Set)
1x Shameful Display (Core Set)

Character: 
3x Adept of the Waves (Core Set)
3x Asako Diplomat (Core Set)
3x Fearsome Mystic (Core Set)
3x Isawa Atsuko (Core Set)
3x Isawa Masahiro (Core Set)
2x Ishiken Initiate (Core Set)
3x Miya Mystic (Core Set)
3x Naive Student (Core Set)
3x Seeker of Knowledge (Core Set)
2x Serene Warrior (Core Set)
2x Shiba Peacemaker (Core Set)
3x Shiba Tsukune (Core Set)
3x Shiba Yōjimbō (Core Set)
3x Solemn Scholar (Core Set)
2x Steward of Law (Core Set)

Attachment: 
2x Above Question (Core Set)
2x Cloud the Mind (Core Set)
2x Grasp of Earth (Core Set)
2x Magnificent Kimono (Core Set)
2x Pacifism (Core Set)

Event: 
3x Against the Waves (Core Set)
2x Assassination (Core Set)
3x Banzai! (Core Set)
3x Court Games (Core Set)
2x Display of Power (Core Set)
3x For Shame! (Core Set)
2x Know the World (Core Set)
3x Supernatural Storm (Core Set)
2x Voice of Honor (Core Set)

Holding: 
3x Forgotten Library (Core Set)
3x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set)

[OutOfFactionWarlord]

...

Attachment: 
2x Above Question (Core Set)
2x Cloud the Mind (Core Set)
2x Grasp of Earth (Core Set)
2x Magnificent Kimono (Core Set)
2x Pacifism (Core Set)

Event: 
3x Against the Waves (Core Set)
2x Assassination (Core Set)
3x Banzai! (Core Set)
3x Court Games (Core Set)
2x Display of Power (Core Set)
3x For Shame! (Core Set)
2x Know the World (Core Set)
3x Supernatural Storm (Core Set)
2x Voice of Honor (Core Set)

Holding: 
3x Forgotten Library (Core Set)
3x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set)

...

 

I'm having trouble (in any of the decks I've built so far) not having 2x of "the power five" in every deck.  Assassination, Ornate Fan, Fine Katana, Charge, and Bonzai.  Some arguments can be made for 3x Assassination and Bonzai, but I still find them situational enough that 2x is better given you have enough in-faction draw to get to your copies.  The pool is too low on 0 cost conflict tricks to be able to drop Katana / Fan, but having 3 has ended up being dead draws so I've put them at 2.

 

If possible, I would try to find room for Katana / Fan in your deck.  Grasp of Earth is a little too situational for me, I'd probably replace that with one of these and then find a little room for the others (drop a Bonzai and a For Shame maybe).

 

Storehouse is also a tough one.  Forgotten Library is so good, I don't have any Storehouses in my deck.  I'm an outlier in the community right now, I think 6 holdings is too much without any cards that allow you to flip dynasty cards in provinces faceup.  We don't have enough useful conflict characters to play, and there's a lot of single character hate in the pool right now you need to make sure you can get two characters into a challenge pretty often.

 

All that being said, the pool is limited enough that you really don't have a lot of character options to replace those Storehouses so it's not terrible.

[Hakkor]

It's worth mentioning Grasp the Earth shuts down Unicorn. Players are still figuring out deck building and playstyle, but once Unicorn province break rush is a common thing (as well as Favored Ground), I'm sure Phoenix players will be happy to have a copy of the card in hand when defending.

[FightingWalloon]

Built a Phoenix deck to give a different take than my Lion deck.

What is the Phoenix 101 for a first-time test run with a Phoenix deck?

[FightingWalloon]

So is the consensus that Admit Defeat is better than Voice of Honor as a splash?

[Atrus]

They are different. One is pro-active and the other re-active. Both great cards. Depends of playstyle amd the rest of the dynasty and conflict decks.

[Killcrazy]

Currently testing Scorpion splash. 

 

Deck Created with  CardGameDB.com Legend of the Five Rings Deckbuilder

 

 

Deck Clan: Phoenix

 

Total Cards: (85)

 

Total Conflict: (40) Total Dynasty: (40)

 

Total Influence: (10/10)

 

Stronghold:  

1x Isawa Mori Seidō (Core Set #5)

 

Role:  

1x Seeker of Void (Core Set #218B)

 

Province: (5)  

Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (1/1) Void (2/2) Water (0/1)  

1x Entrenched Position (Core Set #17)

1x Manicured Garden (Core Set #19)

1x Kuroi Mori (Core Set #12)

1x Meditations on the Tao (Core Set #20)

1x Shameful Display (Core Set #24)

 

Character [Dynasty]: (36)  

3x Asako Diplomat (Core Set #85)

3x Isawa Atsuko (Core Set #92)

3x Fearsome Mystic (Core Set #91)

3x Adept of the Waves (Core Set #84)

2x Isawa Masahiro (Core Set #90)

3x Meddling Mediator (Core Set #86)

3x Naive Student (Core Set #81)

3x Radiant Orator (Core Set #87)

2x Serene Warrior (Core Set #88)

3x Shiba Tsukune (Core Set #93)

3x Shiba Yōjimbō (Core Set #89)

3x Solemn Scholar (Core Set #83)

 

Character [Conflict]: (2/10)  

2x Seeker of Knowledge (Core Set #171)

 

 

Attachment: (16)  

3x Fiery Madness (Core Set #183)

2x Court Mask (Core Set #182)

3x Magnificent Kimono (Core Set #172)

2x Ornate Fan (Core Set #201)

2x Pacifism (Core Set #174)

2x Cloud the Mind (Core Set #202)

2x Fine Katana (Core Set #200)

 

Event: (22)  

2x I Can Swim (Core Set #187)

3x Supernatural Storm (Core Set #175)

3x Against the Waves (Core Set #177)

2x Assassination (Core Set #203)

3x Banzai! (Core Set #204)

3x Court Games (Core Set #206)

3x Display of Power (Core Set #179)

3x For Shame! (Core Set #207)

 

Holding: (6)  

2x Favorable Ground (Core Set #128)

2x Forgotten Library (Core Set #94)

2x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set #129)

 

 

Court Masks and Poisons are fantastic at messing around with combat math. Was running Forged Edicts but swapping them out for I Can Swims - throwing caution to the wind against cancel. We'll see how it goes. 

 

Generally, it's strong on Offense and Defense. Always try to keep Courtier in play. Most common game winner for me is Isawa Atsuko. Get her out late and watch her wreck a stronghold with a few friends. 

 

So far, I haven't been impressed with Favorable Ground and Charge. Might drop them and bring in WotP for Charge. Testing to come. 

 

Phoenix's biggest problem is the lack of decent shugenja bodies. Since they're all so tied to an element, you kinda either hope the rings go your way or hope your carefully planned chain of events in Conflict phase go as planned. 

[tsuke]

i agree with phoenix scorpion. I havent seen a better splash yet.